Avoid anything that is vulgar, immoral, violent, or pornographic in any way...Commit to keeping God’s standards. –For Strength of Youth (it’s for adults, too)
In June, 2003, Brad Bushman, a professor of psychology at an Iowa university, decided to conduct an informal survey among church members regarding inappropriate media. He stated:
When I asked members what makes some movies and TV shows objectionable, the most common response was sexually explicit scenes, followed by profanity. Nobody mentioned violence. When I asked about specific movies, a common response was, “That movie had only one bad scene.” I asked, “What happened? Did someone get killed?” The answer was always the same: “No. It was a sex scene.”
…what did Alma rank as the two most serious sins? Denying the Holy Ghost and “shedding … innocent blood,” or committing murder (see Alma 39:5–6). I was puzzled that many Church members did not feel concerned about watching people being murdered on the screen.
Which brings me to my most recent discovery, via Free ‘n Equal, of a book (whose last installment was released this August), soon to be movie, that is all the rage at BYU-Idaho, and apparently everywhere else. Unfortunately, it was written as a teen novel, with children as young as 11 (probably younger) reading the first book in the series.
What is disturbing to me is that many, many Christians see some sort of moral to these stories, and they are reading these books with their children and praising the books for having no sex. I could not find negative reviews regarding this series–no, it is all adulation and praise, along with the comment, “I couldn’t put it down. I am totally addicted.”
Thankfully, there were a few LDS women and reviewers who realized the violence of the books were probably not for younger readers. Their advice? Wait until the kids are a little older. But, it’s fine for mature adults (no matter that it’s written at the 6th grade level). You know, we adults are so much stronger, we can handle sin and temptation a lot better:
This was an absolutely fascinating book. It was terrifying but intriguing all at the same time. I couldn’t put it down.
And another Mormon mom:
Suzanne’s writing makes a beleiveabe [sic] world, where children are forced to do the unthinkable, and still manages to keep the reader reading. This is probably the best book I have read all year. I reccommend [sic] it to all readers. What are you waiting for? Read it now!!
Even a very conservative LDS book reviewer starts out with book one and by book three admits that she “devoured” it–she denounces the intense violence, but she and other LDS readers seem to agree that it’s okay for more “mature” readers. This is a complete rationalization.
Book 1 : Admittedly, I was captivated by “The Hunger Games”. Unfortunately, the level of violence is extraordinarily high and extremely graphic. Although written at a 5th – 6th grade level, I cannot recommend this book for young readers. Mature readers ought to proceed with caution.
Book 2: I abhor cliff-hanger endings! The sequel was not as consuming as The Hunger Games, nor was the violence as graphic….While reading this series, I am a “Deer in Headlights”. I continue to read, because I can’t fathom that each child is really going to be killed by another child –and they are.
Book 3: Suzanne Collins is a great writer – fabulous denouement! Admittedly, I devoured this book…
It is interesting to note that by the second book, the reviewer is actually describing an unhealthy captivation with all the violence:
While reading this series, I am a “Deer in Headlights”. I continue to read, because I can’t fathom that each child is really going to be killed by another child –and they are.
Why are so many LDS people (and other Christians) drawn to this book? I have read online that there are great morals in this story about the effects of war, and the author wants kids to think about global warming, starving people, and the government. I saw no real morals in the story. It just wasn’t deep enough. And despite the absolute raves from Christians (including LDS), because it wasn’t sexual, it was, in my mind pornographic–both in the traditional sense and in the violent sense. It was disgusting. And Godless.
I was surprised at one LDS writer’s perspective:
…one of the best parts about the book: It was clean.
After some prayer, I decided to read the first book for a content review and cultural commentary. I was NOT riveted or pulled in during my three hours of reading/skimming. First of all, the book is written as a first person narrative, which is absolutely horrible and smacks of some well-written fan fiction, not a novel.
I know, I know, no one will agree with me–everyone in the world seems to have a crush on Suzanne Collins’ writing–just like they did J.K. “I have to use 3,000 adverbs in my fourth book to make it longer because I no longer care about a plot” Rowling and Stephenie “I Am Bella” Meyer. Once the stupor cleared, everyone came to their senses and realized these “authors” were not good writers. I predict the same thing will happen here, only Ms. Collins has taken us and our children to an all time low.
Not only that, I believe the messages this book is promoting are chilling–and perhaps the author did not intend these messages, but she is obviously immersed in media culture.
Here are my thoughts (I had so many that I will try to be brief, but of course I won’t be).
The premise of the book is that twenty-four 12-18 year olds are drawn from a lottery to participate in a government mandated fight to the death in an arena, similar to gladiator games in Rome. Only this book is dealing with 12 year olds. Just in case you haven’t seen one recently, here is an example:
The book talks briefly about a war 75 years ago, but the characters seem to have no motivation to “freedom.” The biggest motivators are 1) money and food for their hometowns and 2) not being used by the government. That is not very deep or very noble. Oh, and I guess they want to survive, though they don’t seem too passionate about it.
Starving
The book contains constant references in the beginning to the heroine and her family nearly “starving to death.” The heroine, once she becomes a “tribute” to the games, gets royal treatment and can eat whatever she wants.
Interestingly enough, she has no problem gorging herself on the delicacies and delightful dishes of the Capitol. She only mentions once, briefly, that her family is probably still hungry. Oh, well. She doesn’t seem to have been too affected from a lifetime of starving (except that she is too thin, which is a positive in this book).
This is apparent when, after she wakes up from a nap in the Capitol and takes a luxurious afternoon shower:
You need only whisper a type of food from a gigantic menu into a mouthpiece and it appears, hot and steamy before you, in less than a minute. I walk around the room eating goose liver and puffy bread (wow–for someone who has grown up on squirrel meat and turnips, she sure has rich tastes) until there’s a knock at the door. Effie’s calling me to dinner.
Good. I’m starving.
I can’t describe how revolted I was when I read those words. Obviously, the author either really doesn’t understand starvation, or the character is completely narcissistic, or both. My in-laws starved when they fled Communist China as young children, incidentally, the same age as Ms. Collins’ main characters. They never refer to wanting dinner after having sampled goose liver pate as “starving.” In fact, they don’t use that word.
Having gone hungry a few times in my past, I don’t use that word, either. Being hungry is not the same as starving. And, if the author is so intent on having people think about how others are starving out there, why is her heroine so completely callous?
If it had only happened once, I would have chalked it up to poor writing or bad editing. But, it happens a second time. Yes, the young heroine spends a few hours crying into her pillow, but then meets everyone for dinner (including the people that are supposedly “objectifying” her as nothing more than a token in a game), who all make her feel better. This is especially troubling because she thinks of her family in the same sentence:
I grin at him and realize that I’m starving. I cut off a piece of pork, dunk it in the mashed potatoes, and start eating. It’s okay. My family is safe….
Her family is safe and eating mint leaves and wild onions, but she is starving. I found it sickening to have the character use that word twice when referring to merely wanting to glutton herself on rich food.
Thin Is Good, Big Is Not
Another message replete throughout the book is that thinness is such a wonderful advantage. While the heroine gives lip service to the idea that in a starving society, fat people are looked upon as doing well because they have enough to eat, the actual lesson of the book is that thin is better.
The author tries to make it sound like people in the Capitol, who are obsessed with their weight and plastic surgery, are the ones who like thinness, but the author’s views are obvious through the eyes of her heroine. First of all, all of the bigger children/adults are either dumb, drunk, physically abusive or mean. Secondly, and even more disturbing is at the end, when the heroine describes her emaciated figure:
But when I look at my naked body in the mirror all I can see is how skinny I am…I can easily count my ribs.
And yet, a few seconds later, she explains how she looks in her dress that shows off this emaciated figure as girlish and innocent. How about sad and undernourished?
Nude Scenes and Sexualization
The book explains that the “tributes” or children who fight each other to death, become instant celebrities in the many days before the game. The first stop once in the Capitol is the “Remake Center” which is basically a total body makeover session that is described in detail. In fact, there is almost as much detail given to the sexually suggestive clothing and nude makeovers as the violence.
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Then, there are the descriptions of the heroine’s outfits. Yes, we have to hear ad nauseum about her outfits and the outfits of other “tributes.” Certainly, if this were not a first person narrative, I might understand the descriptions, but this heroine appears to think quite a deal about how fabulous she looks…all the while knowing she is going to fight other children to the death. She even giggles on stage. Ugh.
I’m frozen but then I catch sight of us on the large television screen and am floored by how breathtaking we look. (in black unitards and shiny leather lace up boots…both the boy and the girl)
And then after a painful paragraph of nude nail polishing, hair braiding, and full body glitter application, we get to read this:
I am not pretty. I am not beautiful. I am as radiant as the sun.
And, then, her handsome young man stylist (who dressed her), asks her to twirl, which she delights to do.
Another “tribute”, one who dies a particularly gruesome death is described:
her body tall and lush [in a see-through gold gown] …she’s sexy all the way.
Later on, the hero and heroine both get to spend a lot of time snuggling in a sleeping bag for a few nights. The laughable part is the way the heroine starts ruminating about their kisses and whether or not she “likes” him or a boy at home….it’s so ridiculous. As if, in a survival situation when a teammate is dying and a girl is wounded, really starving and dehydrated, she would be worrying about whether or not she “likes ” someone or “like likes” him. That’s another reason it makes the violence even more detestable. The book is not trying to be real in any other way but in its descriptions of violence and nudity.
Gender Roles
Suzanne Collins goes to great pains to make sure there are no stereotyped, old-fashioned gender roles here. The hero, who is in love with the heroine, works at a bakery and ices cakes. The heroine, on the other hand, is a great hunter and definitely the more aggressive of the two. I don’t want to go into more depth, here, because I have other things to cover, but suffice it to say, I think there is an underlying message here about gender roles….also absolutely no mention of God. Anywhere.
Violence
The violence is unbearable. This book is targeted to 5th and 6th graders! I can’t believe it.
In the beginning of the book, the heroine describes past games that she watched as a child, remember, these are children the author is talking about here:
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And this is considered clean by LDS authors and reviewers? And, what is the justification for the violence–that it teaches a moral?
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We have LDS parents, children and young single adults soaking up this horrible excuse for literature. Worse, Free ‘n Equal’s friends at college had this conversation with her:
Free ‘n Equal: Well, if you want to know the effects of war on people, why not read The Hiding Place?
College Friend: No, oh, I could never read that book–it’s too disturbing.
Corrie Ten Boom’s book is filled with redemption and not “disturbing”….unless a person feels disturbed when they actually feel genuine, deep feelings. Which is why I think the students are disturbed at Corrie’s account. It’s too….real. No glamour. No pretty thin people. No cameras. No gratuitous anything. Just real people.
We don’t need to read dystopias to know about evil. God already spent a lot of time preparing a study on evil and what it can do–it’s called the scriptures. Sound simplistic? Well, God made it simple on purpose.
I really am baffled as to what Christian (LDS included) parents are thinking, oohing and aahing and sharing this book with their children. One even had the audacity to say it wasn’t horrible like those Twilight books. Only it is. I would say even more so. The author is much more adept at fooling people into thinking there is a good moral to this story, and she is a better writer. She is much more dangerous.
And, of course, they will all have to see the movie, which I wonder how LDS ark culture will justify all the nudity–they won’t even think there’s a problem with the violence. It’s only going to be PG-13, I’ve heard.
This review was the only one I could find that even came close to hitting on some points I saw, but the author has a completely different value system than I do.
Here are some quotes from celebrities, Hollywood execs, and others at the Parents’ Television Council. These are from 2005 and they will curl your hair, so don’t read them if you don’t feel up to it. I only read a few and that was enough for me.
Please be aware that all the kids at school (and church) and all the teachers (at school and church), and, I think, every single person on the planet has read or is reading these books. They are especially popular right now since the final installment was recently published. If your children want to read them, you can point them to several talks in the Ensign and New Era regarding violence, and to the scriptures. Have them pray about it.
It’s just another way they won’t fit in. It’s okay. They’ll be stronger for it.
And, just for the record, I don’t think I will ever review a “popular” so called “clean” book again. Ever. I’m done. That chapter (pardon the pun) of my life is closed.

{ 74 comments… read them below or add one }
I’m speechless. I’m shocked and sickened. I’m heartbroken that many in my extended family will be (and probably have been) reading this series. How can they not see? How can they not feel? How can they do this? How? How? How…
I just asked my 11-year-old son if he or any of his brothers have read this. He said the two older ones have, but that the 13-year-old didn’t because he thought it was too disgusting. I, too, am sickened by this, and we are going to have a lesson this morning discussing the portion of the Strength of Youth pamphlet you mentioned. Maybe we’ll just go through the whole thing! I have been very negligent when it comes to monitoring what is coming into this house in the way of reading material. I really thought we had taught them better. Now we will. Thank you so much for the heads up!
Oh, don’t make me cry, Misty! I’m one of the masses that loves this series. But I will also (uneasily, unhappily) acknowledge that I haven’t completely left Babylon yet. It’s a process and you can’t necessarily flee to Zion while taking the books/music/movies of Babylon so we’re trying to figure out what stays behind.
I had planned on using these books when my boys were in the later teen years to discuss tyranny, the appropriate time (and way) to disobey a government, dystopia, etc. I justified that they are much better than A Brave New World or Lord of the Flies or some of the other “classics” out there that I found so repulsive.
I also like to tell my friends who are SHOCKED that I won’t let my kids read the above books (“How can you ever show them evil, etc??? They have to see what is wrong in the world, what we can turn into…) that the scriptures are full of examples of good and evil, right and wrong, light and dark. I guess I should take my own suggestion and stick to the scriptures for illustrating these things.
My husband (who also read the Hunger Games trilogy) and I have talked how the movie would be “just awful” to watch and “we’d never see it because it would be so graphic”. Oh, how easy it is to deceive ourselves that reading it is better than watching.
Thank you for your thoughts (however grumpily I say that). Sometimes it’s hard to hear the things you need to hear. I’m off to try to unstiffen my neck and unharden my heart……
What a beautiful comment from a humble heart! I loved your concluding paragraph, and will be looking for ways to do those things in my life. I appreciate your insights.
crazy4boys,
Thank you for your comment! You said everything I was going to say. And, I agree on the movie, it would be too graphic!
I had a neighbor girl ask if she could borrow the final book from me. I told her that she’d have to get it from someone else because I didn’t think it was appropriate for a 14 year old. Eventually, I noticed that mine was gone after she had visited one day and a couple of days later she came into the house with it. I was sad that she felt that she needed to “borrow it” without asking. The pull is that strong.
Sorry, Heather! I have to say, if I found out about the book then it MUST be pervasive, and I really struggled with whether or not to acknowledge it in a post. I just kept feeling so strongly that there were too many good LDS people talking about this book and not seeing anything wrong with it.
What tipped the scale were two people whose opinions I usually trust (one a Christian blogger, one LDS) raving about the book, and saying it was great to read with kids. That was when I thought I had better say something.
Something to keep in mind when we are rationalizing that it’s okay for adults or it’s okay because we are just reading it are some words from President Faust (A Thousand Threads of Love):
I really think there is not much new to teach our children regarding tyranny and opposing it that they cannot learn studying American history. It’s all there, pretty much.
I can recommend The Hiding Place if you really want your children to understand a dystopian situation and the power of the Atonement in the midst of tyranny.
One thing I think most of us neglect to see when thinking about tyranny and how to fight it, is the Bible. The few times Israel was actually doing her best to keep the commandments, she did not have to raise one sword. The Lord literally fought their battles.
Hezekiah and the plagued army, sudden blindness to the enemies of Elisha..the Lord has promised to protect His people, if we would just have faith, keep His commandments….and not be afraid of anything, including death.
President Kimball’s landmark “The False Gods We Worship” is telling:
In the future, our world will be mostly dystopian, with a few pockets of light here and there scattered–we have the promise, however, that the gospel will never again be taken again from the earth, and that victory is assured–not through armed rebellion, but through the coming of the Savior. The best way to fight tyranny is through the love of Jesus Christ, not with bows and arrows or swords and spears.
This is the last days–this time the people of the Church of the Firstborn will get it right. We should teach our children that God will protect His people, and to call upon His legions of angels, His fire from heaven, or, as Enoch, the mouths of lions to fight for them. We have to graduate from the patriotism of war to the patriotism of God. It will be required in the days to come–to take the Lord at His word and be as Zion and Enoch. It IS possible. I truly believe it.
(Please don’t take that to mean I don’t appreciate the armed forces and their many sacrifices–we don’t live in a world that would use “trusting in God” as good military strategy, but I think we should teach our children that it is not only possible, but the “best” way. My adopted son is in the Army, and I grew up active duty military, and am fiercely loyal to those who give up so much to protect our freedom…I just know it’s not the “best” way.)
Thanks for the additional heaping of the salt and lemon juice in the open wounds, Misty! I’m glad that this is being said at a time that I am willing to hear it. Slowly, slowly I am learning to recognize the “best books” and those things that are lovely, praiseworthy and of good report.
Each month or so I go through my bookshelves and find something else that doesn’t measure up. I have a large laundry basket full of books I pulled just last week. ARGH! I’ve gone through our shelves so many times….how did these get overlooked? I think mostly it’s because it is a process. As I gain a little light and knowledge, my understanding is increased and I’m ready for a bit more. My standards move up a bit more so other things, previously loved, fall under the mark. Soon my shelves will be empty….that will make the movers happy!
I appreciate the examples you shared from the Bible. And the reminder that pretty much everything I need to teach my children has already been written, in the scriptures. (We’re studying the American Revolution right now and having a grand time.)
My husband is going to fall over when I tell him I think we should get rid of some of my favorite books. Can I cry for a minute? It’s hard being a grown-up, a parent, a role model, a disciple of Christ. Oh, the refiner’s fire…..
You are such a wonderful lady! Thanks for being so kind to me, even though I can sometimes sound harsh and waspish.
I have cried several times as the excavation of my soul continues and I realize that I deep down, have knowingly chosen (and sometimes don’t want to give up) Babylon over God…I choose Babylon a lot more than I would like to admit.
I read this post the first time and was horrified that anyone I know might be reading these books but then I logged in and read it again with the missing quotes and I am now literally sick to my stomach. What has become of us? We lead such a sheltered life that I don’t hear or want to hear about the things you post about but then again I guess it’s good for me to know the extent of the damage other people are doing to themselves and their children so we know what to look out for.
Thank you writing this. I was just asked by our bishop’s wife last week if I had heard of these books. I think she was asking what I thought, but I had never heard of them. I was thinking of getting the first one to read as it sounded interesting. I definitely won’t be getting it now.
I appreciate the time you take to write and I have appreciated all your posts. You have given me a lot to think about and to ponder, and yes, to correct in my life.
I hope you contine to write. I am also looking forward to your holiday posts.
Thanks–
My oldest was given the first book as a gift for her birthday last year. She started to read it and couldn’t get past the first couple of chapters. She HATED it, hated the violence, and couldn’t understand why everyone else loved it so much. I’m so thankful she was strong enough to do that. She gave it away on paperbackswap and ordered John Adams instead.
I too read this one but found it very gruesome and certainly would not share it with my children nor finish out the series. I see the aspects people may point out to justify using it but as you stated there are other, better books out there to use to teach the same principles. Besides the obvious Scriptures option Lois Lowery has a series about different types of societies that could be used for the same purposes that are clean and not so graphic (The Giver, Gathering Blue, The Messenger).
Thanks for the write-up…I thought I was missing out on something great, but now I know otherwise.
Our standard should be, “Would I read this book from the pulpit to my congregation?”. I am slowly getting it. Thanks for your thought provoking posts.
Thank you for posting this. This is going to be my standard as well.
Thank you for this review. I did not hear of this book until the last was released. All of a sudden, it was on everyone’s to-read list! That makes me wary, when everyone is exclaiming over a book. I felt the same way about Harry Potter and Twilight; if everyone is exclaiming over how good it is, be very wary!
Thank you Thank you!!! I have already succumbed to “Twilight” and made the HUGE mistake of reading Ender’s Game ( which your description of Hunger Games reminds me of). Excuse me while I deal with the vomit in my throat
Wow. Never heard of the series, though I’ve seen kids at mutual that have the book. Yuck. Thanks for the headsup.
Misty, thank you again for opening our eyes. I have not heard of this series, and I’m sure I would not be drawn to read it. But I think it is important for me to understand a little bit about the poison that so many of those are round us are partaking of. It boggles my mind that so many people (Christians!) can think that these books are clean and good. But I suppose that if they are used to seeing such things come on their television screens then they are numb to it, and can’t see it for what it is.
I was talking to some of my dear friends a while ago about some of the things you write about (Ark Culture mainly). One friend just looked blankly at me and said honestly that she didn’t understand what I was talking about. The other friend, on a separate ocation, said that she had to quit reading your blog becasue you are “too harsh.” It makes me so sad! I love them! Why can’t they see that these things are poisoning them?
I wish more people would wake up! I suppose that if anyone can wake them up, it is you. Thank you for taking the time to share this information with us.
My instinct was to stay away from the books after hearing of the premise, but I didn’t know any of the details. After reading this I am so happy I listened and didn’t read. I have always been more affected by violence than by sex in media, and have avoided it more (Now I avoid media all together). Violence and pornography go hand in hand.
I have heard people justify some of the violence that they watch because they claim that if the Book of Mormon were made into a movie it would surely be rated R (why would it be made into a movie, i don’t know?). I have felt to stay away from them since the first came out and now I am glad to have some reasons why. People look at me like I am niave when I say I just don’t feel right with the subject matter and then bring up how violent the scriptures are.
It has been made into a movie actually! A really bad one. The Book of Mormon Volume 1 came out a few years ago. I believe it was rated PG-13 because of when Nephi beheads Laban.
This is very disturbing…I had not heard about this series, but like others tend to be wary of uber popular series like Harry Potter and Twilight.
I think we are following the same path as Rome–as their decadence grew and they became more corrupted as a society, their desire for the grotesque and immoral became stronger and stronger. It happened with the Nephites as well.
What a cunning tool of Satan’s! Desensitizing us to immorality, intense graphics and violence through all sorts of media (don’t get me started on video games) slowly leads us to tolerance of sin in private and public life.
I have found that reading aloud has helped me choose better books–it’s easier to discern inappropriate content as it’s uncomfortable forming the sentences into words, especially with children around.
I recall a youth camp using Alas, Babylon as one of their required reading and being shocked…it had pornography, immorality, and violence, but hey! it taught great survival skills, so it’s alright, right?
How do we show our disapproval towards this type of series in such a way that it doesn’t come off as something like, “Nicole is so strict about the books they read…poor kids, I’ll bet she proof reads every book they’re interested in…”? Seriously, I’d like to warn a few people but I’m afraid they’d just roll their eyes at me…
In my experience, it is best to approach the subject with a repentant heart full of love–without any pride or ego. Then, we can be led by the Spirit. Often, I end up finding something on which we agree as a starting point for the conversation. Often conversations go well, especially if I remember that if I have the Spirit, He does the “convincing.” I love how the Spirit uses gentle persuasion. My friend, Duchess is so good at this when talking to women about Twilight. She has allowed the Spirit to work through her to persuade many women to ponder and ask God if it is truly pleasing to Him and be willing to hear the answer.
If I am met with a lot of resistance, then the Spirit gently leads me away from that topic. In the end, we are merely tools to help others feel the Spirit of Christ and then go to Him to find the answer…
Of course, on my blog, I sometimes sound a little grumpy or naggy or something–but it’s my blog, and it’s written for me to yell at myself sometimes….or to kind of work through my feelings when my husband is too tired to listen to one of my arguments with myself.
So many thoughts….
I have read the books. Did I like them? well, I thought about a lot of things, a lot of important things because of them. Unfortunately, there was a lot to consider because of the place we find ourselves historically.
I thought about: the perverseness of “reality” games, control of the masses by the few, survival in harsh realities, making hard choices in the face of adversity, black-markets, semblances of virtue during war, resourcefullness and ingenuity, propaganda, power vacuums, media manipulation, martial law, the rationalization that leads to pragmatism, the ugliness and bitterness and confusion that war causes, that war is not neccesarily “fair” to those fighting for freedom, that messages and ideas easily get twisted for the political gain of the elite, ideas on how you would go about throwing off tyranny that slept on your front door, that public sacrifice is sometimes thrust upon someone, the realities of gross over indulgence both in food and style, that beauty and goodness can be found in the darkest of times…
Could I have found all these things in the scriptures, I am sure that I could have. I think the question is: is it appropriate and/or necessary for those trying to become Holy to read books that show the ugliness of a culture in ways that are descriptive? Should we read 1984, Brave New World, Lord of the Flies? These books are definately not Holy, but we have accepted them because of the idea that they allow evil to show its face for what it truly is. Sometimes, a fictional story well discussed can bring almost an experience level understanding. Just discussing the issues oftens leaves us unchanged as to the horror of the evil.
I know that you were concerned with the “twisting” of the “starving” issue. I have no family experience that would leave me to be sensitive to this. I didn’t find that to be troubling at all, the violence, on the other hand that was so easily displayed by some was troublesome, but it was not glorified in the overall purpose of the book. In fact, those that could figure out how to survive without the horrific violence were the ones celebrated.
I am not really sure what I think. I am not sure I would want to give up the ideas that I mentioned above, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know. I totally agree with the idea that God would fight our battles for us, always, if we would merit his protection. I would be happy to know that I never had to read anything disturbing again, because I would not need that level of understanding. But, for now, in this human experience, I think I will choose to occasionally read something difficult that may lead to a depth of understanding into the human experience.
And of course, I could be wrong.
Joyful St, thank you for bringing up that viewpoint. I had wanted to address that in my post, but it was supposed to be a post, not a book, and I was already to lengthy, so I’ll tell you my point of view, if you are interested.
I never read 1984, Brave New World or Lord of the Flies. I protested to my teachers that I didn’t think they were worthy of my time and they all allowed me to skip them and read other things. They are not truly redemptive. There are other books about the depth of human experience that are redemptive.
You asked:
I think people have accepted these books because they have been influenced by the zeitgeist, or the culture of our place and time. Reading The Hunger Games didn’t do anything for me. It didn’t cause me to question anything. We already live in a dystopian society–I have the questions you mentioned you had while reading the book on a daily, sometimes hourly basis….
When I struggle with a question like this, I often go to the scriptures for guidance. Did Nephi need to read 1984 to understand or discuss the human experience with Sam or to deal with Laman and Lemuel and their dystopian values? Did Enoch, who was called to enact change and create a perfect society out of one of the most dystopian societies in the history of the earth, need to read Lord of the Flies to understand the people and how to reach them? No. The Lord taught them.
I think we (myself included) all too often rely on the works of man to teach us things that only God can show us in a way that will not be a temptation or allow me to become sullied with sin, depression, or expose ourselves unnecessarily to pornography and violence.
Why have I been so quick to dismiss the depth of understanding of the human experience I could find while making a true study of the Bible? Could it be because I find the works of man more interesting, more titillating, more worthy of discussion? While the inspired (not Songs of Solomon) scriptures speak of the effects of violence and the sexualization of women, these things are not recorded in a titillating, overly descriptive, or pornographic way. And, the spirit of the Lord can teach us things that are not written while we are reading the scriptures.
I have worked with many abuse victims and survivors in the past. I have found that I did not need to read fictional books about the depth of human experience to gain a level of understanding to help them or to become a deeper person…and a few of them, I helped intimately.
You know what they needed for help? The Atonement. All I had to do was ask God, “What can I do?” and He taught and directed me and gave me insight and understanding as necessary. And, some things I did or said or felt, I did not understand. I didn’t need to understand and see or hear everything. And people were healed. Not through me–through the Spirit, which knoweth all things and the application of the Atonement, which encompasses the depth of the human experience.
Your statement:
is compelling. I will tell you honestly that reading about the death of a child and experiencing it are two completely different things–no matter how effective the fictional story is. It’s just not the same. I agree that merely discussing issues without the Spirit does little to change us, but subjecting ourselves to the pornography of violence does not truly change us in a good way–it desensitizes us in ways we do not fully comprehend.
Perhaps reading these kinds of “broken” books might have been acceptable 20 or 30 years ago….things were different. Now, however, we must raise our expectations of ourselves and our children. These are man’s ideas, man’s philosophies, man’s interpretations and imaginations of human experience.
Has Suzanne Collins ever been starving? Obviously not. How can we expect to gain an almost “experience level” of understanding from an author who is only using what she has seen on television and her imagination? Has Suzanne Collins ever personally witnessed the gruesome death of a child? No, she is writing about things she has heard about, or seen on television shows, or imagined. She is writing about things she has not experienced, so our “experience level” understanding from reading is not based on reality…it’s based on imagination.
When God teaches us something, it is real. It is truly “experience level.” While books may be a good way to learn about the human experience, I believe the word of God is a better way, and the best way is to be taught by God Himself. If it is necessary for our missions in life to understand the darkest side of human nature (and I do not think it is necessary for everyone), it is God who will show us, at the right time, and we don’t need to seek after it in an uninspired man or woman’s non redemptive book (and I think it is up to us to seek the Lord in knowing whether or not a book’s author inspired).
Which brings me to my final point. Your heartfelt words:
Your words have caused me to think about this deeply and the words of Elder Holland keep coming back to me:
It is easy for me to sometimes think that there is no better way to do things, because I refuse to let go of my entrenched ways. Because I am so entrenched, the Lord cannot show me His way. There is no room, so I cannot learn more.
I don’t know the answers, either…I just wonder if it’s possible that we can ask the Lord if there is another way to understand the human experience…Maybe He will say, “No, you need to read these books.” Maybe some people need to read them and some don’t. I don’t think so, but maybe I am wrong. I often am. These thoughts are just me trying to stumble through finding the answers for myself and my family.
And, thanks again for posting. You always make me think.
I believe you are probably right. It is interesting to realize how much damage is done to our spiritual sensitivities as we have just been allowed to be a part of the world, oh, and also happen to believe in Jesus.
I use to love to read Sophie Kinsella. Her books are hilarious- and extremely pornographic, crude, wordly. So I was reading one (just a little brain candy, you know) a few months ago, and I was really loving the story line. When all of the sudden the Spirit told me, “DO NOT READ THIS.” I put it down, and only picked it back up to return to the library. I didn’t have that same experience with The Hunger Games, maybe I needed to read it for some reason, but more likely, I wasn’t open to the Spirit for something that “seemed” more tame. I didn’t really enjoy the books, but for some reason I felt obligated to read them. Pressures of culture or Spirit, I do not yet know.
I have started reading 1984, and Brave New World…never could get through them. I guess I am just not that in to darkness. Interesting that our culture does make them “required” reading.
Thank you for this forum….I, like you, am a “thinker” sometimes to my husband’s chagrine. I am glad for a place to discuss things that are real in our pursuit of Zion.
I have to share one link with you http://www.becomingzion.com
It has on it a little youtube video about becoming Zion. I usually don’t like montages, but this one is beautiful, non-manipulative, and inspiring. I watch it a few times a day to help keep me focused on this not so well-worn path.
I have had a lot of discussions on what makes literature inappropriate. I have heard the argument that we have to study something to truly know how good or bad a thing is. I hold that it is always safer to not touch “the unclean thing” even to understand it. The Founders looked to history and scripture to gain that type of understanding…they didn’t look to explicit novels, ect…I don’t know if I’m explaining my point of view well.
IN the Book of Mormon, the depravities of the fallen Nephites are described in enough detail that we can comphrehend the awfulness, but not so graphically or explicitly to as to desensitize us or offend the Spirit. So while we read of the raping and human sacrifice, it is not told in full detail as to how the horrible offenses were carried out. What I am seeing in so many of these types of books is that they are so graphic that they create a sort of lust for more of that type of sensation, spurring the reader to seek out another “thrill” from another such media. I recall in my college years reading Anita Stansfield’s books…they left me wanting to feel that “high” again and they also left me with a hollow sense of dissatisfaction with “normal” life. It wasn’t until I read Jane Eyre, a true classic, that I noticed the difference and forever quit those types of novels. A classic, in my opinion, can touch upon these things and yet you come away feeling uplifted, enlarged. So in my definition, Lord of the Flies and such will never fit.
We could look upon pornography in the same way…how can we truly know how bad it is if we don’t first look at it and see? Not the really bad stuff, just the “soft” kind. I know this is extreme, but to me, there isn’t much difference. As the saying goes, you don’t have to walk through a corral to know manure stinks…
I think the truest way to learn is by the Spirit. The Spirit can teach all we need to learn about any horrid thing without us ever having to walk through the corral…
I know my thoughts on this are extreme and I hope they are not offensive to anyone. I guess I think we can learn all we need to learn without reading uber graphic novels that are so explicit in detail as to offend the Spirit.
And can I just say (since I was trying to hurry–there’re always interruptions with kiddos, eh) that I was speaking about trends as a whole–why books like this and others I mentioned become popular so quickly, ect…not any one person, if that makes sense.
I can think of another book I was sucked in to: Eregon (sp?). I really liked the first book, and most of the second book…but by the third book, the violence especially got to me and just seemed dark. Has anyone else noticed that with series? It seems to me that many of them begin more innocent and each book builds on the others, getting darker and darker. I’ve actually not read Harry Potter, but had it described to me that way and I feel this is how Eregon went as well…it makes me wonder if it is coincidence…
Nicole, I don’t think it’s a coincidence. I think that’s how Satan gets us. Sucks us in with an “innocent” story and then feeds us a little poison at a time. It’s a smart method and one we have to look out for. It’s too easy to become desensitized!
Poisoned by degrees. Sound familiar?
http://new.lds.org/general-conference/search?lang=eng&query=%22poisoned+by+degrees%22
Ah, violence. I’m not sure why it doesn’t seem to bother most people. Maybe it’s all the video games, eh? Or perhaps it started with Road Runner and Bugs Bunny. Children who grow up thinking it’s funny to see an anvil land on Coyote will later think it’s not a big deal to see portrayals of people experiencing all manner of violence.
We cannot ever underestimate the impact of media on children… and on ourselves, too. Adults are not “immune” – they’re just farther down the road of being desensitized.
I was introduced to these books by a fellow LDS gal who told me her 12 year old son couldn’t put them down, so she decided to read them too and they were the best books ever. I thought, “Wow. That’s great! I think I’ll read them.” I got the first book from the library and I was shocked. When I came to the part where it talks about the heroine being naked in front of all her stylists and all the “beautification” happening to her naked body, I felt sick inside to think that my friend’s 12 year old son was reading this and just eating it up. How could my friend think these books were not sexual in any way? What image does she think pops into her 12 year old’s head when he reads that? Ahhh! It is so frustrating. And I am so frustrated that I can’t trust anyone– except maybe you Misfit– to give me appropriate book recommendations!
I have a question for all of you. My 7 year old son is so fascinated with violence. I have had to set up rules for reading the Book of Mormon because I found out he was only reading the really violent parts (Ammon cutting off the robbers arms, etc.) over and over again. Now I try to always read with him. But he always asks to go to his favorite violent parts. I’ve tried to teach him about the horror of the violence, but I know it isn’t quite sinking into his little 7 year old autistic mind. He literally relishes the violence. What can I do about this? I am really frustrated and worried about it.
I’ve read these books. The violence is horrific. In fact, it almost made me sick a few times. I definitely don’t know how they can market these books to kids. I was a morbid and violent kid and even these books would have been way too much for me.
I’ve thought before, “man, that movie is going to be awful.” And yet I still figured I would “just have to” see it. But DUH to me, I have a choice.
To all the people who have commented, thank you for your thoughts!
I haven’t read the books, nor do I plan to, but this post made me think of a scripture I read this morning in Moses 6:27:
“My fierce anger is kindled against them; for their hearts have waxed hard, their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes cannot see afar off”
In short, they were desensitized. We become desensitized by ignoring the promptings of the Holy Ghost, but we can have ears that hear, eyes that see and hearts that feel if we repent and watch, listen to, read, do and say only those things that keep the Holy Ghost with us and heed then His promptings.
I think this is the way we can truly see the real – the real in the good and the bad – not by reading and participating in the bad itself.
I’m trying to make my home one in which we do and say uplifting things so that we can be sensitive the the Spirit and see truth and the real. I don’t want to desensitize my children by what I say or do! I have a ways to go…
I am a recovering Harry Potter adict. I read all of the books several times until my eyes were opened to the glorification of priestcrafts and witchcraft. But I am glad. I am glad my eyes were opened long before I had to make the judgement on Twilight or this series. My family likes to give me a hard time because I used to love Harry Potter and then I quit cold turkey…threw out my books, threw out the movies (this was back when there were only two), and refused to see anymore. Now day’s I’m nervous even to read Narnia because of the “magic” and perversions. I cringe when I read the “magic” chapter in the Secret Garden or the inuendo’s in the Giver. It is so prevelant. It is everywhere. So, how do YOU judge? What criteria do you judge your books against?
My daughter received The Bridge to Terribithia for her birthday last year. She read the first chapter. It takes the Lord’s name in vain several times. She said she would not like to read it. I am proud of her for her courage and virtue. However, she now chooses not to read because she is afraid of what she will find. Suggestions? She is sticking with Little House on the Prarie and Anne of Green Gables and I can’t say I blame her. Almost every other book out there is steeped in magic (satan’s imitation of power), romance and/or pornography, incorrect attitudes towards parents and family or gender roles, glorification of self and achievements, etc. It is hard even to find picture books to read to small children that don’t include these issues. I once thought they were cute and fun and childlike. Now I understand them for what they are…calling evil good and good evil.
So what is your top 100 list of books TO read?
I’ve been wondering this as well. Of course there are some wonderful classic works of literature out there, and maybe that should be enough. But are we to eschew every modern work of fiction that comes our way?
I don’t have a lot of time for reading fiction, which is okay. However, reading has always been one of my greatest pleasures in life, and when I do find myself with a little time to read a novel, I can’t seem to find an uplifting one! Wandering around the library is fruitless, although sometimes I’ll grab a Christian novel (Beverly Lewis, etc.) that looks safe. So many of those are romances with no real substance, though, so I’m just not sure what to do! Maybe sticking to the classics is the way to go?
I’m grateful for Misty’s review because I probably would have read these books at some point if I had heard the good reviews about them. I’m glad that I hadn’t discovered them yet!
I also wonder what is left to read. Nonfiction? I find myself reading nonfiction more and more these days but I still want something fiction to relax with occasionally. I’ve gotten tired of Christian fiction, especially the romance books, because they have no real substance like you mentioned.
What’s left? I don’t buy the argument that we should read classics “just because they are a classic.” Not all classics are GOOD.
That is so true that not all classics are good. I have had to put down many that are considered classics–not in MY book! (pun intended)
I think we each have to come to a decision as to what we consider justifies the term “classic” in our family.
I peruse reading lists, classics lists, ect and then read summaries of the book in question. If it’s for my children, I either read it first or read it to/with them. There have been ocassional books that we have put down even after all the research. When we go to the library, I flip through every page of picture books to ensure they are not harmful in some way (I began doing this after we got burned with a few kid’s books on Egyptian history–nudes, ect.). I have found that I have the be the gate for every book that enters our home to ensure the safety of my children.
There are, however many good, great, wonderful books out there! You do have to dig to find them sometimes, though. And it is more difficult (at least for me) to find modern classics. It gets harder as the age level increases too.
After reading the original post yesterday I was so sad. I was sad for my world, my children and my extended family. A sister called and we chatted about it. My biggest frustration with all of this is that my reaction to to want to scream at the world (or at least my family) and tell them to STOP IT! Can’t they see what they are doing? We all know how effective that approach would be. The conclusion we came to was that I need to love more and let my light shine so that the light of Christ within them can be called forth and the Spirit can teach and persuade them, as Misfit pointed out.
On the idea about whether we need to read about evil to know it I am reminded of a story of a man who heads the anti-counterfeiting division for the Treasury. When asked how much time he spends studying counterfeits his response was “Zero. I spend all my time studying real money. That way I can easily recognize the counterfeits.” That’s they way I feel about books like this. Do you think the apostles go into debt, watch porn and are lazy in their gospel study so that they can warn us about these things? NO! They spend zero time on evil and focus on the real so that they can see the counterfeit when it shows it’s head.
I think the world is changing. I’m not talking about the last 10-20 years but the last 6-12 months. I have felt an acceleration in both good and evil. I look at the divide between myself and the world and I can be pleased that my family is moving away from it but then I see the divide that still exists between my family and God. We too have a long ways to go. But I have no doubt that reading books like this will not bring me closer to Christ.
Frankly, I wish I hadn’t read this post to begin with. Even the few images shared were terribly disturbing to me. My husband asked me about it, since we usually discuss all the posts, but I told him I couldn’t even talk about it. I told him to read it himself if he wanted to. Yet I was drawn in. I wanted to know why it was popular. I wanted to know the story. I have enough of Babylon still in me to still be curious. I wish I had turned away.
The counterfeit money story reminded me of Moses 1. God revealed Himself to Moses then Satan confronted him but Moses knew the difference because he knew how he felt when he was in the presence of God.
“11But now mine own eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld; for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him.
12And it came to pass that when Moses had said these words, behold, Satan came tempting him, saying: Moses, son of man, worship me.
13And it came to pass that Moses looked upon Satan and said: Who art thou? For behold, I am a son of God, in the similitude of his Only Begotten; and where is thy glory, that I should worship thee?
14For behold, I could not look upon God, except his glory should come upon me, and I were transfigured before him. But I can look upon thee in the natural man. Is it not so, surely?
15Blessed be the name of my God, for his Spirit hath not altogether withdrawn from me, or else where is thy glory, for it is darkness unto me? And I can judge between thee and God; for God said unto me: Worship God, for him only shalt thou serve.
16Get thee hence, Satan; deceive me not;”
I especially love verse 15. We can all judge between God and Satan. We choose each day to feel the light and glory of God or to feel the darkness of Satan.
Another thought provoking post and comments. I have not read these books and hadn’t intended to. I find myself steering clear of anything that is so ‘popular’ figuring it must just be sensationalism to attract so many people and make them gaga over it. I have no desire to follow popular culture, including LDS pop culture. I’m sure I have lots of things I need to work on to step out of it, but the desire to leave it behind is there.
My husband did read these books on the recommendation of his mother. I was frankly very surprised when she said she had read them and liked them. She is so not into pop culture. I spoke with my DH last night and told him about this post and asked him what his thoughts about the books were. He couldn’t see why they were such a big deal, thought the writing was bad and said he would not recommend that anyone read them. We discussed that the same principles/ideas could be found in other less graphic books. I asked him to have a discussion along that line with my teen aged son who also read them. Hopefully that will happen soon. Don’t want him to think that we think they were good reading material.
I sometimes think it would be just fine to go back to the days when the only media in the home was the family Bible!
I’m so glad for this discussion. It has helped to be a bigger and quicker push in the right direction. I did read these books earlier this year, and with the first I had the same reactions as Joyful St. It was thought-provoking and eye-opening about how our culture and society really is and is close to becoming, what with reality TV, and politics the way they are. I also thought it was good because I thought it would bring out a feeling of people wanting to choose freedom and bravery over tyranny-that we don’t need to stand up for evil and loss of freedom.
But, after I finished the 3rd book, I really saw them for what they were. It’s like I was just reading it to find out what would happen, not because it was a good book or inpiring or thoughtful. Too bad, the author could have done so much more with the concept. I heard that she also pretty much took the concept from a Japanese book.
Our RS book club even read book one. I didn’t join it, but now that I think about it, it’s pretty bad. An aquaintance I know said that her 5th grader’s teacher was going to use this book as the class read aloud. Now that I recognised as repulsive! Totally inappropriate in so many ways. This just shows you how far this has gone.
Now all the LDS ladies are joking about “forget Edward and Jacob, are you for Peeta or ?” So sad that the love triangle was the most that people learned from these books.
I’m also more commited now to stick to uplifting classics. The past year I’ve read much more easy, entertaining reads. I think it’s been because I’ve needed that crutch since letting go of mindless TV, etc. But I feel ready to move on and be closer to God. “When we put God first, all things fall into their proper place or drop out of our lives.” I’ve found this to be true!
I just wanted you to know I nominated you for a blog award on my blog today. Here is the link http://womeninthescriptures.blogspot.com/2010/10/recommended-reading.html
Thanks for this warning. My little sister just lent me these books and I was going to start them tonight. I’m glad I didn’t.
(I apologize; I am going to comment without having read your entire post; a few paragraphs in, I felt we must have read different books, and I had to say something before I exploded.)
I loved Hunger Games, and I was happy for my nine-year old to read the trilogy. There is violence, yes, and it is probably the most violent book she will read for a long time, but (and this is an old argument), there is violence in the Book of Mormon, too, and in the Bible (and in so many great works of literature, including things like Crime and Punishment).
The question for me is, is the violence (or sex, or whatever else that is objectionable) depicted gratuitously or glamorously? — And on both counts I say no for Hunger Games.
And as for a moral — Hunger Games is so superior to Twilight. My daughter and I have discussed at length how Katniss is a wonderful heroine (I’d say the opposite of Bella Swan). Strong, courageous, self-sacrificing, humble, smart — she volunteers for the Games to save her sister. I think strong arguments could be made for her as a mythic Christ figure.
The second book in the trilogy reminded me of OSC’s Ender’s Game, so I bought the books for my dad for Father’s Day.
Literature has to have conflict. Conflict occurs when people sin (in the HG trilogy, it’s the corrupt government and shallow, materialistic society who are most culpable). What matters is how those sins and fallible humans (the protagonists can’t be flat saints, either, in good fiction) are portrayed, and I am confident that Hunger Games does not glorify or objectify violence in a way that could be considered pornographic. Far from it; the protagonists (and the reader) come away abhorring violence, and the culture that allows (revels in) it.
Skimming your post I see your objection to her reaction to the feasts in the city? Again I wonder if we read the same book. One of the most poignant scenes for me is when Katniss’s handlers tell her and Peeta that she’s supposed to vomit in between courses in order to be able to consume more of the bounty. You could (maybe you do?) object to that because it portrays an eating disorder, but my daughter (and I, and most readers, I hope) are sophisticated enough to realize how condemnatory that scene is of the waste and the complete immorality of the Capitol in squandering food like that when citizens in the districts are starving. And to realize that (in the books’ point of view) a binge-and-purge attitude towards food is not only unhealthy and shallow, but totally unethical, with troubling implications for their entire culture.
You really need to read the rest.
Shannon, your reference to the vomiting between courses does not happen in The Hunger Games. I believe that must be in the second or third book. So, in that sense, we did not read the same book.
My problem with the starvation is that if Katniss was a true character, she never would have said “I’m starving” when she was being well fed in the Capitol in the first book. It was callous and manifests a narcissistic/selfish personality.
I am actually thankful to you for writing your feelings–it has caused me to ponder and think. I have been able to work through and clarify some of my feelings with regard to this book.
And, you are right–I went into this book very cynical–as a protection. I did not WANT to be caught up in the compulsion to finish the series. It turns out, I did not have to worry about it, because I have a very difficult time with first person narratives.
My problem, I guess.
I think you forget that the character that says “I’m starving”..is 12. Do you know 12 years olds? youve made it clear by your picture, that you know what they look like. But the 12 year olds I Know, and there are many, despite what chaos is happening around them or in their lives, are prone to thinking of how they look, how they feel and they say stupid thoughtless things (like “im starving”) all the time.
Yes, that may be true. Especially if you live in America. However, the book states that this particular twelve year old has grown up literally starving. Do you know any twelve year olds who are starving to death, or nearly so? It may be hard to comprehend, considering our extremely overindulgent, self-absorbed culture, but there are other cultures and peoples who are not prone to think how they look and they don’t say throw out “I’m starving” in a casual way. Actually, there are still cultures and peoples who don’t have the word “teenager” in their vocabulary. It is obvious that the author cannot see outside of her own self-absorbed culture, and therefore, she should not be trusted as speaking to the “depth of the human experience.”
I was just thinking a lot today about “what makes a good book.” I, like many of you, think that it IS good to read GOOD literature. But what makes good literature?
Yes, a well-written book contains conflict. It will have tension. The characters are not flat (with some of the greatest conflicts and tension in the book being within the main characters themselves–it makes them ‘real’ to us).
A book that only focuses on evil is not good literature.
A book that only focuses on good is not good literature.
A true masterpiece will contain elements of both good and evil, but in the end will be redemptive.
I’m not sure exactly where I’m going with this, but I’m going to continue anyway.
I just expect better. Do any of you lovely ladies (or gentlemen, too; I didn’t forget about you, Mr. Smith) have talented children who like to write? Encourage them to do so. We NEED good books. Yes, I love the scriptures, but I like a good story, too.
I think the reason so many Christian novels end up being so-the-cheese romances is because the author writes with the idea in mind of teaching morals…they’re not really thinking so much about entertainment value, I suppose.
I just wish more of us were writing stories and novels and such. I believe we’re capable. I think it’s high time we take up the challenge ourselves -and not for money’s sake, by all means.
Let’s be honest with ourselves, here. What principles and doctrines are these books pushing into our minds? Do they or do they not seem pleasing to our Heavenly Father?
I should probably go to sleep now. I really shouldn’t comment so late in the evening!
No doubt. I can’t believe you are up either. Oh yeah, you’re at college. I never went to bed before 2 during that time of my life. Why am I up now? Poor self-discipline, and a missing (hunting) husband.
I think what makes a book worth reading is that it is true. By that I don’t mean that it’s non-fiction.
What I mean is, besides a good story, that we understand the basic character of the people, that the choices they make are consistent with what we know of their character, that their character develops (for good or ill) as a consequence of their choices, that the outer consequences are also in line with the nature of the choice.
Also, that the author kept the violence and immorality to what needed to be said in order to understand the conflict, but does not say more than what we need to know (which, unfortunately, is often what modern authors do in order to give “shock” value and to make their book more sensational – some may even do it with the intention of making it “real”).
I didn’t read Hunger Games, but from the descriptions in your post (and I didn’t even read the ones you had to log in for!) it sounds like the author went too far in describing the violent simply for the entertainment value.
Just my recent thoughts.
One more thing I’d like to add while I am on my soapbox…
The best writers write from experience. You write about things you know about. If you know what it feels like to be betrayed, you could probably write about it. If you know what it’s like to starve, you could write about it…etc.
Ms. Collins seems to have written with only the experience of watching television. It’s not the same. She has not experienced REAL experiences, and seems to have written this with the intent that it becomes a screenplay.
Personally, as a consumer, this makes me feel manipulated and tricked.
I just don’t like the idea of a writer using cheap tricks (rather than actual talent and hard work) to keep up the tension in a novel.
Do we know for a fact that this woman has never experienced any of these things? I keep seeing that stated on here, but is it a fact? I have no desire to defend the books or the writing, I just wonder if that has been verified.
Suzanne Collins claims that stories she heard from her father, a career military man, are her only experience with starving and war, as well as reading a stack of survival books.
With regard to her father, however, while he did go to Vietnam, it is unclear what he did….he was a professor who taught at West Point. He had a doctorate in political science and was a military historian. He also lectured at NATO and the Pentagon. It actually sounds like he was in military academia….with a lot of research experience and not a lot of “hands on” experience.
This woman grew up as an officer’s daughter, and now lives in Connecticut. She has two children and two cats. So, we DO know that her references to the cat in her story were from her own experience.
Imagine Eeyore’s voice… “Thanks for noticing me.”
We have several talented children that love to write; however, they’re all quite young, so their writing has ample opportunity for development – yay!
In response to your assertion that “A book that only focuses on evil is not good literature” I must disagree, though I think the exception is rare.
I classify The Screwtape Letters as “good” literature even though it focuses exclusively on evil. In fact, it’s precisely because of its excellent literary quality that Mr. Lewis was able to pull off such a gamble.
many of my friends have recommended that i read this series, and every time i’ve picked up The Hunger Games at the store to read on the back what it’s about, i just couldn’t imagine that i would want to read it. thanks for this write up and confirming my decision not to read this series. it just seemed too violent to me to read about children killing each other. who in their right mind would want to read about that???
I think there are more ways to read and interpret The Hunger Games than the one espoused in this post–ways that are uplifting and positive.
For example, instead of fixating on everything that is wrong with the book, what might happen if we read The Hunger Games looking for good?
Instead of going through the book line by line to find each and every instance of immorality, what if we went through the book line by line seeking for that which is “virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy”? Would we find it? I believe the answer is yes.
Both good and evil exist in The Hunger Games, but Collins’ purpose is not to celebrate or encourage the evil. She clearly condemns it, and the would she creates (which is, as the post clearly demonstrates, full of violence among the young and obsessed with body image) is a metaphor for our own world. She’s using this metaphor to teach today’s children how to navigate a complex and violent world in a way that lets them retain/reclaim their morality. If we read The Hunger Games in this way, we will walk away uplifted and edified.
Will we have to wade through some unpleasantness to get there? Absolutely. Is this bad? Absolutely not. Consider this statement from Brigham Young:
“It is your duty to study to know everything upon the face of the earth . . . We should not only study good, and its effects upon our race, but also evil, and its consequences.”
And this:
“If I were to go into the bowels of hell to find out what is there, that does not make it necessary that I should commit one evil, or blaspheme in any way the name of my Maker.”
If what Brigham Young says here is true, we can read books like The Hunger Games without fear. We can study fictional hells, and we can walk away from doing so uplifted and edified, because the key to being uplifted isn’t on the page–it’s in the reader’s mind. What happens in a reader’s mind determines whether the experience will be uplifting or not. What the reader focuses on, what the reader’s eye is single to is the thing that ultimately matters.
So consider the 13th Article of Faith again:
“If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things. ”
Is it possible that these words tell us less about what to read and more about how to read? When we read (whatever we read), we should seek the virtuous. Too many members of the Church today read in the opposite way. They read to seek out sin (so that they can condemn it, but still, sin is what they fixate on, what their eye is single to).
Our reactions to books tend to reveal less about the books themselves and more about the people reading them. If we walk away from a book like The Hunger Games uplifted and with a new awareness of morality, we are clearly a certain kind of reader. But if we walk away sickened and judgmental, we’re clearly a different kind of reader. I’d like to become the former.
Josh,
Your analysis reminds me of the boys in college who claimed that they subscribed to Playboy for the articles.
Neither of Pres. Young’s comments say that you will be “uplifted and edified” by reading books like this or about any evil thing; that’s your hope but not the words of a prophet.
Your belief that you can bathe yourself in evil and come out clean is simply false. It’s not about looking for the evil, the evil is there. Yes, we look for those things that are “virtuous, lovely, or of good report, or praiseworthy” but when Satan wraps up a nugget of the virtuous in the dung heap of violence and porn you are best to seek elsewhere.
I agree that how you react to a book says a lot about you and your spiritual sensitivity. I do not however agree that those you are repulsed by pornography and gratuitous descriptions of violence are morally inferior to those who are able to tolerate such subject matter and not feel its affect but rather think they have a “new awareness of morality.” Do you honestly believe you need to read about children killing each other to know it is wrong? Is this a “new awareness”?
If we are truly interested in “teach[ing] today’s children how to navigate a complex and violent world in a way that lets them retain/reclaim their morality” we would do well to study the words of the Proclamation to the Family and the words of the prophets delivered last weekend. Telling them stories like this are not instructive.
Those who devour these books and encourage their children to do the same, I wonder if you also devour the scriptures and encourage your children to do the same. I cannot see how one can exist with the other.
Amy,
I believe you can read The Hunger Games–or The Great Gatsby (which contains violence and sex) or A Farewell to Arms (violence and sex) or any number of books–without being damaged by them. In fact, I believe that if your mind and heart are in the right place, you can learn a lot from them.
This is the point I was making earlier. I believe it is reasonable, supported by Brigham Young’s statements, and open-minded.
You disagree, and that’s cool. I ask only this. Let others make their own decisions about books without facing judgment or accusations (like accusations that they “bathe in evil” or implications that they don’t read the scriptures).
This whole discussion (and the blog post that prompted it) seems centered around judging and condemning those who would read The Hunger Games because they are “deceived.” Let’s recognize that morality is remarkably complex and that different people will reach different conclusions about it. This is not bad.
I choose to read The Hunger Games. You don’t. Big deal. Should we really be judging each other over this? Above all, let’s refuse to be sanctimonious and judgmental because those problems are far more dangerous to the Church (and our souls) than The Hunger Games.
Do you think, Josh, that you aren’t also judging on your end by suggesting that the persons who may not like “The Hunger Games” are condemning everyone around them?
Personally, I think we as mortals make morality ‘complex’ as you say.
“I will only read and watch things that are pleasing to Heavenly Father” seems pretty clear-cut to me.
But, then again, I could be wrong. It happens pretty regularly.
Josh, I think that we are all called on to judge righteous judgments. This book is not about kids getting beaten up, or adults who have to fight war–it is about children murdering each other in gruesome ways. There are certain people who view this as morally wrong–they are making a judgment.
The tone here is not condemnation of those who are reading the Hunger Games–the tone is that perhaps those who find morality in this or think this is “pleasing to Heavenly Father” are more than likely being deceived. Yes, that is a judgment, but not of you, and certainly not of your eternal wickedness or righteousness. We are here to discern between good and evil. I believe the Hunger Games is evil and it is going to lead to even more evil in our society.
I don’t know many problems that could be more dangerous than one in which most of the church is saying “All is well….” there is nothing wrong with this.
I am a little weary of the call “you’re being judgmental”. That is what I used to say to my parents and the leaders when I was a teenager. When I use that argument, I often find that I am being a little less than wise. Perhaps it is different for others….
As I have studied and read more over the last couple of years, I have been surprised to see how what I have read has become a part of me, ingrained in my soul, if you will.
The scriptures teach us that “as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.” President Kimball in his book The Miracle of Forgiveness says that, “A man is literally what he thinks, his character being the complete sum of all his thoughts.”
It would therefore seem that we should be very careful about the thoughts we put into our mind. We will never do an action that we first did not think about. No one can possible become something they are not thinking.
I read an article yesterday of an Ohio teen how strangled his 10year old brother after reading books about serial killers and watching the tv show Dexter, in which a serial killer is the hero of the show.
Now, I not saying that everyone is going to be a serial killer 0r commit horrific acts of violence, but the pamphlet For the Strength of Youth contains a statement on media violence that says that depictions of violence offends the Spirit and “makes you less able to respond to others in a sensitive, caring way.”
I know I need all of the help I can get in being a loving and caring wife and mother, as well as sister and friend, and if reading and seeing violence is going to make me less caring, I need to avoid it.
The Doctrine and Covenants says, “Let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly.” I think to applies to all we read and watch.
My brother recommended “Hunger Games”. I hated it. I felt that the book was extremely ungodly and had nothing that redeemed it as a book worth reading. The only thought that I had that hasn’t been mentioned already is that I think it shows the direction our society is headed. You may think that we are eons away from the Romans who found entertainment in watching people die, but the wide acceptance of this similar violence in the “Hunger Games” shows that we are quickly traveling on a path in that direction. What’s next? A reality show where participants kill each other. The winner gets $1,000,000. Don’t believe it could happen? We’re talking about a culture who glorifies crime on TV. The more gory the better. Even a series about a serial killer is a hit. Literature of this kind is a cancer that infects society to imagine and accept horrors that we should avoid, not embrace as “informative entertainment”.
We are Rome. There are people in our society who live like those Suzanne Collins portrays. Most of them, however, use video gaming, internet and sports to virtually act out their depravity.
Speaking of which–I wonder when The Hunger Games video game will be released? Here are some posts from kids in a video game forum:
HAHA YES! Now that I think of it, it seems like suzanne collins wrote THG just for being a video game! You could play by yourself or with like however many other people, it doesn’t have to be 24, and you just have to kill everyone else and avoid dangerous environment-stuff (like avalanches and stuff) then you win, and there would be all these different Arenas….OMG that would be so awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And:
OH MY GOSH!!!! That is the best idea since toilets!!! But I think they should throw in some hand grenades for fun.
I won’t post the other things–they made me cry at how desensitized these children are.
Misfit,
This post really got me thinking about a lot of things. I have had several conversations with people about this book and I did some reading and writing on the subject. If you have a moment I would appreciate your thoughts on my post. http://seekingtobedistinctlydifferent.blogspot.com/2010/10/seek-ye-out-of-best-books.html
Thanks, I really respect your opinion. Thanks for taking the time to write.
I am so glad that you have the integrity you do. violence is a very serious and pervasive problem today. One point that has been made here many times is that garbage is garbage. a little bit of good in the book doesn’t justify taking in the garbage. Rather for any lesson that is good for us to learn there is a clean and wholesome alternative to it that the poison laced books which are so prevalent. I am thinking about a very popular book with the lord’s name in vain crudity unkindness etc. that so many people think is wonderful,. what book is this “The proper care and feeding of husbands” all of the correct principles found there can be found and learned from more wholesome uplifting books. the same is true of all the other precepts that are discussed as being taught from books with just a little garbage.
the scriptures standard is very clear that if it doesn’t lead to do Good to walk uprightly entice to come unto Christ it is evil also they say to avoid the appearance of evil. it is not avoid the appearance of evil to read about such violence especially in a way that makes it seem amusing.
the prevalence of addiction to violence is scary what is going to happen if the day ever comes that people can’t satisfy that addiction with their video games? I think we all know and it is very frightening and for those who would say that violence on a game is different then in person I would say this it has been proven that the violence of a video game stimulates the brain the same way as committing the act personally. It has been proven that violence is addicting and causes similar reactions in the brain as pornography. Violence is not a lesser evil. in fact if you study the scriptures they strongly imply that it is a greater evil. Keep up the good work Misfit Cygnet.
I had not heard of the book “The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands,” but the title would have dissuaded me. I know it is supposed to be humorous, but it is condescending. I don’t think a man could get away with “The Proper Care and Pacification of Wives” could he? No, women would feel that it was derogatory. Without even knowing anything about the book, let me guess: the premise is that if you cook dinner for your husband and have sex with him instead of nagging, your marriage will be better.
How cliche. And, I am guessing, manipulative. Another things these books fail to take into consideration is the fact that most men, in some way, have been affected by the pornographic society in which we live.
Yes, there is some truth to that premise–but it would be much better to just take some time prayerfully studying the words of the prophets and apostles on this matter and you would find out these same truths, in their fullness, not severely diminished and polluted by the philosophies of men (or women).
Ironically, I just read that book two weeks ago. On the contrary, I did not see it as cliche or manipulative, but a refreshingly clear depiction of many marital struggles, albeit one-sided. Admittedly, I am neither female nor a wife, so take my comment as you’d like.
The author speaks extensively about the marital relationship as foundational for a happy home and children. Moreover, how women – as the nurturer and homemaker – have a tremendous, and often misunderstood, power for good in that space. Not unlike Sister Julie B. Beck’s Conference address, “Mothers Who Know” I thought.
The book does not detail – by design – the husband’s responsibilities, though I did not infer it was the author’s intent to suggest successful marriages are exclusively the wife’s responsibility. Moreover, I did not feel women were denigrated by simplification to intimate or food objects (not by the author, anyway – some comments by male contributors suggest a disgusting, chauvinistic misunderstanding of relationships).
I agree wholeheartedly that for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the best approach is to study the scriptures and Prophets’ teachings, perhaps meet with local ecclesiastical leaders, and make prayerful decisions – unitedly – for your marriage.
For those who are not members of the Church (the unlikely reader of The Misfit Cygnet), I think with discernment the book may be valuable (i.e., http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/91/1,2,4,5#1). It is tremendously better than many professional counselors and other literature that are garbage, such as those that ignore or openly reject and scoff at roles as defined defined by Deity.
Thanks for a thorough review, Mr. Smith. I was making a prejudicial judgment, as I did not even know of the book or the author. I do have to say, however, that Dr. Laura does not have a lot of credibility with me, as she has stated several times that casual pornography use is not a big deal. From her blog in 2008:
She has stated this on her radio show in the past as well. I cannot disagree with that statement more. In fact, this type of statement has contributed tremendously to the pornography epidemic we are seeing today. Considering that, I don’t think I can recommend her books to anyone.
I’ve not listened to her radio show and did not peruse her blog, so I was unaware of her position regarding so-called “casual” pornography use. Fortunately, at least within that specific book, there were no such references or allusions that I recall. All the more reason for caution, prudent judgment, and spiritual discernment as we seek knowledge from the “best” books. Thanks for the reply and information, Misty!
It’s ironic & sad that society is quick to discourage “casual” narcotic use but turns around and openly endorses and encourages “casual” pornography (see prior comment re: garbage professional counseling). The physical death toll of pornography may pale compared to narcotics, but unquestionably the spiritual death toll of immorality – of which pornography is a huge, ever-increasing component – is unquestionably larger than narcotics.
I just read this post last week and have thought about little else.
Our family has been on a journey for several years now and this has helped as a guidepost on that journey. Thank you.
I am so thankful for people who are willing to speak out on the things they feel strongly about, no matter the backlash, so that those who feel similar may learn and grow from it. So thank you for being such a person.
(I don’t know if you want to read my blog take on it, but if you do for some reason, I linked to you and here is my post: http://rovinroberts.blogspot.com/2011/07/violence-where-do-we-stand.html I am not the writer you are, but I do have an opinion!
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Thank you for posting–I had a new baby and haven’t been keeping up with comments much. I read your article and thought it was very honest and thought provoking. People still see me as extreme, but that’s okay. I wonder how many of our kids will see the movie, and what it will be like?
I’ve never heard of this series, but I plan to give it a wide berth. I was strongly reminded of “Lord of the Flies,” as I read your post. It was required reading when I was in high school, and I found it disturbing in its images and in the premise that such events could actually happen. That was around 1969-70. Today, child-age and teenage killers are ho-hum. A news article on AOL yesterday introduced us to a Florida lad who murdered his parents and then threw a party in the house where their slain bodies lay, inviting his guests via an open social media invitation. When we look at the world around us, with the age of murderers, molesters, robbers, drug addicts etc. getting younger and younger, you have to wonder how often life is imitating art. The more such potential scenarios as are in these books (and on TV and in the movies) that we throw out to impressionable youth, the more chance there is that some child or teen on the edge will think about them and ultimately do some form of them.
On LDS/Christians hating sex scenes but okaying violence: Have we/they not recognized that we are substituting the vicarious climax of murder, torture, etc. for the vicarious climax of sexual intercourse? There is the same type of adrenaline rush, release, etc. It gives us leave to deny that we are doing wrong while nonetheless being titillated. And we just don’t get what we’re doing.